You've been involved in a defensive shooting, now what?

[dvmcmr]

You are in a dark parking lot after having dinner with your wife, as you are unlocking your car doors to let your wife in 2 thugs approach and demand cash, and tell your wife they are going to have their way with her.

You stand your ground and tell them they need to leave while moving your coat out of the way to be ready to draw if needed.

Thug number one starts toward you while pulling a pistol from his waistband, cussing at you as he approaches closer.

You draw, and you warn him as he gets closer and withing arms reach of your wife as he begins to point his gun at you.

You fire a split second before he pulls the trigger.

He falls at your feet, while the second thug begins to run.

Your wife jumps over him and out of the way in a frenzy.

The perp attempts to point his gun at you again and expires.



What now?

What is your first course of action?

[Berserker]

tell your wife they are going to have their way with her.


I tell them good luck, or screw you, I paid for dinner.

I don't know how I would react in the real world. One though is you gave to many chances, though I think in the real world, you would hesitate, hoping you don't have to.


Not so much with this scenario, but possibly on your bike at remote location, you could kill them with no witness. A person would be honetly tempted to just get out of there, which may work. But if it did come back to you, you would look guilty, and probably be screwed.




Someone who took a class told me, you should press charges against the attackers, making you the victim, which you are. I think I would just tell them I was attacked and I want a lawyer. What sucks is you are going to spend $$$$.

[coach1299]

You are in a dark parking lot after having dinner with your wife, as you are unlocking your car doors to let your wife in 2 thugs approach and demand cash, and tell your wife they are going to have their way with her.

You stand your ground and tell them they need to leave while moving your coat out of the way to be ready to draw if needed.

Thug number one starts toward you while pulling a pistol from his waistband, cussing at you as he approaches closer.

You draw, and you warn him as he gets closer and withing arms reach of your wife as he begins to point his gun at you.

You fire a split second before he pulls the trigger.

He falls at your feet, while the second thug begins to run.

Your wife jumps over him and out of the way in a frenzy.

The perp attempts to point his gun at you again and expires.



What now?

What is your first course of action?

I'd definitely call 9-1-1 immediately. What I'd say or not say after that is a very tough call. From my experience it would seem expected that you provide some information, but where you draw the line on that is not easy. Voluntary statements that you make without being given Miranda Rights can still be incriminating contrary to what a lot of people think. A voluntary utterance can be admissible without having been read your rights. in other words that is something you might blurt out to the police. If you tell the police nothing, they will be likely to have a greater level of suspicion about your actions. Police officers are routinely told by their unions/legal reps, that they should request hospitalization to be checked out for both mental and physical trauma. Many believe that this gets you off the hook (front burner) for the time being because it is often medically acceptable that you are no condition to make a fair statement about anything right after you blow someone away. In your scenario it might be a good idea for your wife to also get checked out at the hospital even though she was not a shooter. She will likely be considered a material witness and her account can be a major concern. Don't expect to retain your firearm especially if you're going to the hospitals. The police will probably confiscate it as part of their routine investigation of the shooting. Don't argue with them because they will win and they don't need a warrant to do it. This is done with LEO's, and a they are issued a temp pistol if and when they are returned to duty before invest is complete. Police Departments will often temp assign officers involved in shootings to desk or other admin duty while awaiting invest and review.

One thing I would do is make all guns involved safe in a way that present no threat to responding officers. Don't stand there with a smoking gun half dazed. That could really take a turn for the worst. The cops really don't care about much else but their own safety and to secure the scene upon first arrival. After that they will render med aid as needed and then secure evidence and obtain any info that they can get. Arrests may follow. Dont freak if you're arrested. That could work in your favor because you could be given Miranda rights and at that point I wouldn't tell them anything but who you are and that you would like to be represented by an attorney. You might have to post bail. I carry as a citizen, and I do consider bail as a post shooting a possible reality. If you carry, you might want to at least have a bail bondsman in mind because a lot of us don't have the cash. You might want to have the name of a good criminal defense attorney that covers your that can be reached in a pinch. He/she can do a lot for you after a shooting. Shooting on weekends and evenings can be a little bit more of a disadvantage because there is a greater chance that you will stay in custody (if your held) until business hours. Bondsmen are often available around the clock and posted on the wall of prisoner processing areas, but you're better off having a plan of your own in case the info you need is not available.

This is a great question, because there will be a lot of questions. I think the best thing is to go to the hospital and get an attorney ASAP. That is probably your best bet, but this is a great question that many people have no clue about. It's easy to say "rather be trialed by 16 than carried by 6" but I'd also rather not get tried if I could be prepared and have the legal knowledge how to protect yourself from prosecution. This might sound like overkill to some but in todays political climate I don't think you'll get a free pass anywhere on this. You do need to have plan. It could certainly make the difference of whether or not you get convicted for you action.

Oh yeah, Get a copy of your states use of force laws for civilians and know them start to finish just like you stay up to date with them just as you do with actually shooting and qualifying. Some state permits require this as part of qualifications other states don't. If your report is consistent and within the boundaries of those laws you will be in much better shape.

[bigweatherby]

I would keep an eye out for the other perp while my wife called 911. I am going to try to get medical attention for the fallen perp although I will not personally administer it.

I was totally in the right so I am not going to hide from the police or anything like that. I will try my best to be a good witness after I speak to a lawyer.

[Berserker]

I am not convinced saying I was attacked, is not saying to much, without a lawyer. I don't think I would admit to doing the shooting, not that I would deny it, but I would say I need a lawyer, I have been through alot. Give them you name, ect.

The cops are going to disect every word you say, and how you say it. The cops are just as much the enemy in this as the thug. They will be trying to prove you really didn't need to shoot and went to far.

What about the people that have been to classes? This must come up, or I would want my money back.

[dvmcmr]

I'd definitely call 9-1-1 immediately. What I'd say or not say after that is a very tough call. From my experience it would seem expected that you provide some information, but where you draw the line on that is not easy. .


Well, let's start right here, at the beginning.

You've called 911, and the cops are on the way......what is happening while you are waiting, and what happens when the cops get there?

What are you going to say to the cops when they arrive?

[dvmcmr]

I was totally in the right so I am not going to hide from the police or anything like that. I will try my best to be a good witness after I speak to a lawyer.


I am not convinced saying I was attacked, is not saying to much, without a lawyer. I don't think I would admit to doing the shooting, not that I would deny it, but I would say I need a lawyer, I have been through alot. Give them you name, ect.
.


What exactly will you both say when the cops arrive?

[bigweatherby]

First I will be doing my best to let them know that we were the ones that called and I am legally armed. I will follow their instructions to the letter.

I will be cooperative but I will try to avoid letting my mouth run like a Whipperwills ass at choke cherry time. I will ask for a lawyer.

[bigweatherby]

I do NOT think it is wise to give alot of details about what happened when you are all jacked up. Certainly don't brag to the cop about how brave you were or about the nice tight group on the perps chest.

[Berserker]

What exactly will you both say when the cops arrive?

I am ______. These men attacked us. That is it.



Also be careful what you say on 911 recording. Help I've been attacked. We are at ________.


I think it is probably imporant to say you were attacked, but stop there. Any innocent thing you say can be twisted by the cops or some liberal lawyer. Neither are your friends, even though you are the victim. Sad, but that is the way it is.

[dvmcmr]

That's probably the most important thing after it happens, to keep your lips from getting you in trouble because something you've said has been taken the wrong way, or can be twisted by some lawyer at a later date.

[dvmcmr]

How many people that carry a gun for defensive purposes have ever talked to an attorney on what to do if the hell wrenching deed of killing another human being should ever have to occur to save one's own life or that of a family member?

If you haven't it's a damn good idea for you to do so.

It won't cost much, and there isn't snything that will do you more good should you be faced with the situation, than to know what your lawyer would want you to do when the dust settles.

No one is going to be a cool cucumber in this situation.

No one.

[Berserker]

How many people that carry a gun for defensive purposes have ever talked to an attorney on what to do if the hell wrenching deed of killing another human being should ever have to occur to save one's own life or that of a family member?

If you haven't it's a damn good idea for you to do so.
.

Good idea, but how realistic is that? Taking a class, is good idea. I haven't, I didn't need it for my permit. I probably should.

I would think there are things to read on the internet, but how do you sift through. Though even at a class, you are only a few steps higher.

[Luvs2Play]

We have an attorney here, maybe he could give some simple advice as to what to say and what to do. Not necessarily legal advice, but general advice to make things better for all involved.

[bigweatherby]

Exactly. I would however request medical attention for the downed attacker.

[dvmcmr]

Good idea, but how realistic is that? Taking a class, is good idea. I haven't, I didn't need it for my permit. I probably should.

I would think there are things to read on the internet, but how do you sift through. Though even at a class, you are only a few steps higher.

Reading on the internet can give you good background, but you also get what you pay for. LOL.

It isn't very realistic that evryoe who carries is going to see an attorney to know what to do, however, if you are ever in a situation where you need to know, the consultation fee is pretty cheap insurance I think.

[dvmcmr]

We have an attorney here, maybe he could give some simple advice as to what to say and what to do. Not necessarily legal advice, but general advice to make things better for all involved.



I thought about that dave, it could be mutually beneficial.

[Luvs2Play]

Exactly. I would however request medical attention for the downed attacker.

We had this discussion on the Nebraska forum a while back. I posted, and I stand by my post, that I will not render first aid to someone I shot in order to stop the threat. I would inform the 911 operator that there was a person with a gunshot wound and it's very likely he needs immediate medical attention. I am not the one going to do it because I don't want to be responsible for any further legal action against me.

[Luvs2Play]

I thought about that dave, it could be mutually beneficial.

I am thinking just a guideline, but every case is going to be different, and every police force is going to take things differently too.

[bigweatherby]

We had this discussion on the Nebraska forum a while back. I posted, and I stand by my post, that I will not render first aid to someone I shot in order to stop the threat. I would inform the 911 operator that there was a person with a gunshot wound and it's very likely he needs immediate medical attention. I am not the one going to do it because I don't want to be responsible for any further legal action against me.

I agree 100%. I'm just saying that I would try to get him medical attention since that would look good in court. I would not administer any on my own. I am not getting in contact with his leaking body fluids.

[Berserker]

I think most states have good Samaratian laws, so if a person dies or is injured while you are trying to help, you are not responsible. Breaking ribs is common in CPR. I am not going to risk getting AIDS from a guy that just tried to harm me. That type of person is probably more likely to be involved in at risk behavior.


If you are in public, there is probably a good chance someone already called 911.

[Berserker]

Reading on the internet can give you good background, but you also get what you pay for. LOL.

It isn't very realistic that evryoe who carries is going to see an attorney to know what to do, however, if you are ever in a situation where you need to know, the consultation fee is pretty cheap insurance I think.

I suspect if you are involved in a shooting, you will spend a shitload of money on lawyers. Like I said, I wouldn't even give a statement without a lawyer.

[dvmcmr]

That's my point with this thread, it is something that should be given thought, and thought through before anything ever happens.

Yes, you will most likeley be spending money on a lawyer, and the decision to act in the first place is a life changing moment.

[Luvs2Play]

I think most states have good Samaratian laws, so if a person dies or is injured while you are trying to help, you are not responsible. Breaking ribs is common in CPR. I am not going to risk getting AIDS from a guy that just tried to harm me. That type of person is probably more likely to be involved in at risk behavior.


If you are in public, there is probably a good chance someone already called 911.

The good Samaritan law will have no affect on helping someone you shot to stop a threat to you or your loved ones life. No matter what you do, you shot one of the nicest law abiding boys in all of reform school, and the family and news media will make damn sure the rest of the world knows that you shot the victim rather than be the victim. Although my intentions are to stop the threat, my goal is to kill whatever I point the gun at. I will not under any circumstances attempt to save the life of a thug that was wanting to take mine by any means other than call for assistance.

[Berserker]

I was referring to giving aid to a wounded person, with respect to the Good Smaratian law, as far as the aid you give him.

[Berserker]

We had this discussion on the Nebraska forum a while back. I posted, and I stand by my post, that I will not render first aid to someone I shot in order to stop the threat. I would inform the 911 operator that there was a person with a gunshot wound and it's very likely he needs immediate medical attention. I am not the one going to do it because I don't want to be responsible for any further legal action against me.

I may be wrong, but I don't see how giving aid to the person you shot will effect you legally or civilly. I probably won't do it because I don't want to come in contact with blood or have the guy grab at me.

[dvmcmr]

I may be wrong, but I don't see how giving aid to the person you shot will effect you legally or civilly. I probably won't do it because I don't want to come in contact with blood or have the guy grab at me.

Giving first aid to anyone opens you up legally, much less with someone you have put into a situation of needing a medical emergency.

Anything you do after a defensive shooting is going to add, or detract from your liabilities.

The world is full of lawyers, and people who think everything is someone elses fault.

[Berserker]

I am not sure if I agree. Not doing anything could look bad, and play out worse. You never know. Maybe I am naive, but I don't see how trying to help is going to hurt you. How it is much different then trying to help any wounded person. Not saying I would.

I do agree, a lawyer may try and turn this in some crazy direction. But you run that risk, with anything.

[olderthandirt]

Well, let's start right here, at the beginning.

You've called 911, and the cops are on the way......what is happening while you are waiting, and what happens when the cops get there?

What are you going to say to the cops when they arrive?


I am invoking my right to remain silent and wish to be represented by an attorney.

And I won't say one more word ! Any info they need like name etc will be in my wallet which they will go through either before or after a search warrent.

I'd rather spend a day or two behind bars rather than 20 because I said the wrong thing...

[olderthandirt]

We have an attorney here, maybe he could give some simple advice as to what to say and what to do. Not necessarily legal advice, but general advice to make things better for all involved.

I think you should ask him :eagerness:

[Berserker]

I'd rather spend a day or two behind bars rather than 20 because I said the wrong thing...

It is always good to see old friends.

[dvmcmr]

So tell me, what did you do with that firearm you just used to remove a threat from your life?

Is it still in your hand when the cops get there?

Is it back in your holster where it came from?

[bigweatherby]

It will be in my hands covering the downed perp and ready in case his partner comes back. Part of dialing 911 will be explaining that I have a gun and am covering the attacker. As soon as the cops get there I will be very cooperative in what ever they want me to do with the gun (except drop it.)

[Berserker]

I think the gun would be on the ground, or I would drop it when I see the cops pull up. I think it is a bad idea to have a gun in your hand around cops, no matter how many times you explain it to them.

[bigweatherby]

Yeah you might be right there. Maybe drop the mag and open the action or pop open the cylinder and lay her down nice and easy.

[dvmcmr]

I don't think you want to have a gun in your hand when the cops arrive.

Imagine a young rookie showing up at the scene.........

Any move you make can be mistaken for an offensive move towards the cops, and you do not want to be in that position.

Not to mention, it simply will not look good as a first impression for whoever shows up on the scene.

You shouldn't have that firearm anywhere on your person by the time the police show up.

It's better for everyone involved.

That doesn't mean throw it out of reach, just in case the other perp comes back, it means don't have it on your person.

[Luvs2Play]

If there are unaccounted for people, I don't think I am going to put my gun down until LE gets there and tells me to. It may be totally wrong, but that is how I feel about it right now. Of course, every situation is going to be different and none of them are ever going to play out the way I think they will.

[Berserker]

Yeah you might be right there. Maybe drop the mag and open the action or pop open the cylinder and lay her down nice and easy.

Do you want a guy 20-30 feet away squiting at you as you hold your gun?

If I was concerned of other thugs, I would hold the gun until the cops got near. I would think you will hear a siren or lights.

[gunlawyer]

I was asked to chime in here. I have not read everyone's comments as work has kept me swamped. But here is what I typically recommend to my CHL clients. If you are ever involved in a self defense shooting the best course of action with regards to law enforcement is to keep your mouth shut. Your attorney becomes your mouthpiece. However, the police may look upon you suspiciously for keeping tight lipped. I say it is better they are suspicious than for you to give them something they can use against you in court. Everybody is different and we typically think we can tell the truth and it "will set us free". lol. Not so most of the time in my experience as an attorney.

Be careful what you say - if you do say something establish the three elements of self defense. I had no where to go - he came at me unprovoked with a knife - I was in fear of death. I do not, however, even recommend saying that because once we get to talking many of us cannot shut up.

* This is in no way to constitute legal advice.

[dvmcmr]

I'm guessing this is Derek, so thank you for your input.

Nothing on an internet forum can replace a sit down with an attorney, face to face, for advice relative to your own location locally, as well as the state you live in on what to do should the worst case scenario ever occur.

[olderthandirt]

I was asked to chime in here. I have not read everyone's comments as work has kept me swamped. But here is what I typically recommend to my CHL clients. If you are ever involved in a self defense shooting the best course of action with regards to law enforcement is to keep your mouth shut. Your attorney becomes your mouthpiece. However, the police may look upon you suspiciously for keeping tight lipped. I say it is better they are suspicious than for you to give them something they can use against you in court. Everybody is different and we typically think we can tell the truth and it "will set us free". lol. Not so most of the time in my experience as an attorney.

Be careful what you say - if you do say something establish the three elements of self defense. I had no where to go - he came at me unprovoked with a knife - I was in fear of death. I do not, however, even recommend saying that because once we get to talking many of us cannot shut up.

* This is in no way to constitute legal advice.

I think this should be made a sticky..... It's great solid advice from an attorney that specializes in gun laws.
And the info is good no matter which state you live in.

[GreginAlaska]

I didn't read the thread, but having access to a big excavator could come in handy. ha (kidding)